When people say that WoW "is too casual" what in the world are they talking about?

[Insane Buttocks]

Bear with me for a moment, long post;

I see people say this all the time. A vast majority of people. Most of their argument is basically "compares to BC and Vanilla wow is too casual. "

Now, when you break that down, what in the world are they talking about?

These days in both PVE and PVE you can find extremely difficult challenges. You have bosses that only an incredibly small number of players defeat, and the rest do it only after it has been nerfed to death. The skill level is PVP is also incredible these days. Go watch any of the tournaments or PVP streams, and you see people in a match for a long time. Watching these people play is a joy, since their reaction time is just amazing.

I get that levelling is easier, you can buy boosts and whatnot...but how does that make the game casual? Just because it allows other people who don't have as much as time to play, that ruins the experience for you?

I had this discussion with someone in my guild yesterday, and I have had the same argument countless times. They are never able to give me an answer.

Do these people REALLY want to go back to grinding one level for hours, or farming mats for a minor upgrade for weeks on end?

Just look at what happened to the reputation system in WoD. They made it a fucking grindfest like the old days, and as expected a vast majority of players complained how its a chore and grinding is not fun. My friends who always hails vanilla as the best time in WoW also complained about it, which is hilariously ironic.

Yes, you had very difficult 5 mans back in the day......and now you have very difficult 5 mans in the form of challenge modes. If you want to relive the "glory days of BC heroics", well there you go buddy. Go do CM golds where you need CC and coordination.

One other thing that is really baffling to me, is that when I have this discussion, and point all the incredibly difficult fights, competitiveness in PVP, and things such as CM to these people, they always say something like "well, that isnt my goal in the game"

Huh?

What?

You have been literally complaining that the game is too casual, and that anyone can waltz in and kill bosses.

But....that is completly false. LFR is what is it, for people who just want to experience the content. If you feel like the game is too casual go kill Imperator on Mythic then...oh wait...you havent even killed him on normal since "that isnt your goal"

Then what the hell do you want? I am really trying to understand this argument here.

I really apologize if I sound rude and condensing. I just see the same argument over, and over again, and it has zero merit.

I also love when they say shit like "Well look at Muru/C'thun/4Hoursemen, that fight proves wow is too casual now"

Seriously?

Jesus christ

[Deleted]

You can't stop people from getting butthurt over WoW. Some of them will always cry, mourn and live in the past. Most of those people have more serious problems of different natures in real life that they try to hide from by creating new problems in their heads for themselves, that aren't as hard to deal with mentally

[Deleted]

Every "oldschool" player who now play casually is saying these things, that doesnt mean you have to bother listening to them because its simply just not true. Most people i know that say these things are the ones that played back in vanilla/bc and havent even bothered trying normal/heroic. So why would you bother even answering to these people

[Super Kami Dende]

Well Dickbutt, you see.

People enjoy being unique, some(see many.) enjoy being Unique a little too much and must voice their hate of a pretty standard and logical thing.

[Soeroah]

Generally, when people say the game is "too casual", what they are actually saying is that it's moved in a direction they personally no longer care for, and miss when the game was fun to them.

"Casual" isn't good or bad, no matter how people try to use, and whether the game is casual or not is mostly subjective. It has been trying to appeal to a wider group than just the hardcore dedicated, though, so the people who use "casual" in that sense have a point. It doesn't mean the game's bad, it just means it's bad to them.

Things are more accessible in today's WoW, and some people preferred when only the hardcore or dedicated got access to the best parts of the game. From a business perspective, it's better for Blizzard if they could find a balance- which they did by introducing the different difficulties of raids. The problem some players have is that now that almost anyone can see 'all the content' without putting as much time or effort in as it takes people to get through heroic or mythic, the value of raiding heroic/mythic or doing challenge modes decreases. Some players don't care about achievements, mounts, transmog or prestige, so the idea that someone who plays 3 hours a week can kill the expansion's final boss just the same as someone who plays 20 hours or more a week makes them feel that those players are getting off easy.

Which I've never agreed with myself, but hey, opinions. Personally I love that I can enjoy the story at more or less my own pace without having to schedule my evenings around it like I used to.

[Schalde]

You can't stop people from getting butthurt over WoW. Some of them will always cry, mourn and live in the past. Most of those people have more serious problems of different natures in real life that they try to hide from by creating new problems in their heads for themselves, that aren't as hard to deal with mentally

This person will probably be flamed, but in most cases he is correct. ofcourse there are different reason.

[Zephire]

I'd guess that the game as a whole is more chill. No arena teams needed, X-realm, global AH, LFG/D/R queue and tool. Those things which we didn't have back in vanilla or TBC. You had to work your ass of when a group was required for something back then. All these powerful add-ons wasn't as good as they are now. You no longer have to queue from a specific NPC standing somewhere in the world. You don't need to travel to a dungeon entry (part from CM). There's loads of easily obtainable mounts.

Minimal travel time or time invested in getting a group together or waiting for people coming to the place. More time to actually play the game. I guess that is more casual? I mean, it makes sense. Vanilla were gave you more social experiences due to the manual labor.

I somewhat miss it but the benefits of the new systems are just too good.

[Algrumm]

You blend casual/hardcore with easy/difficult which are two different things.

I think you'll also find most people aren't saying its "worse" because it's more casual, they are just point out that it is.

[De Lupe]

Problem: Some people take the game too seriously and think it's supposed to cater to THEIR needs and wants. Anything that differs from THEIR vision of the game is bad. Often associated with the phrase "that's casual."

Solution: Enjoy the game for what it is (a game,) stop trying to blow things out of proportion, and the game is a lot more enjoyable.

Played since Mid-BC, leveled (and still play) every class, roughly 100 toons created in that time (though, most deleted,) and I can still enjoy the game, even when the end-game content is...lacking.

[Deleted]

If you would have played Vanilla or TBC you would see the difference, Kid.

[Darksoldierr]

For the record, vanilia 2hand WF Enhance is still to this day the best PvP enhance

[Deleted]

I see people say this all the time. A vast majority of people. Most of their argument is basically "compares to BC and Vanilla wow is too casual.

I play since vanilla, and WoW always adressed a broad audience. Thats nothing new.

[squiss]

Yes, you had very difficult 5 mans back in the day......and now you have very difficult 5 mans in the form of challenge modes. If you want to relive the "glory days of BC heroics", well there you go buddy. Go do CM golds where you need CC and coordination.

My goal is to see the end content, and feeling like it's an achievement.
I dont like the fact you can choose the difficulty, what's the point running a dungeon you've already done many time in CM? I can't get it.
it's like: ok, I know how to do the content. now let's try with one hand in the back with my eyes closed. and only with panties. It's kind a faked difficulty to me.
What's the point of collecting stuff if in the end, everything is downgraded when enter those CM.
You cant compare old heroics to CM.

What I liked back in TBC, vanilla is, if I wanted to see the end content, I had to put effort in it, and it was rewarding with great loot. Now I can pug LFR, see the end content, bosses, and all while watching TV and chatting with friends. And the point in doing the same bosses in other difficulty modes? better loot? more epics? yes no doubt.
More fun? No way because I already know the fights.
Well that's my point of view.

I know many will disagree or may not understand. And I wont try to make you change your mind about it. you experience the game as you want, you feel it's better now. Im happy for you. But for me, it will never be as great as it was before, in the old days.

[Deleted]

,,Casual games,, are not about difficulty but about accessability. Hardcore games have mostlikely 1 single difficulty (the hardest one) like Dark Souls, Ultima Online, Demons Souls and Vannila, in WoW it was TBC where you couldnt lower difficulty when you struggled. Hardcore games reward for hard work players what deservers to be rewarded. Games like this work with snowflake effect where good players are put above average and are rewarded with better content how it pretty much should be. WoW doesnt do that. In WoW you can pick difficulty and finish whole content no matter if you are bad or good player you have always access to the content.

Thats pretty much why i stop playing WoW. Games doesnt punish me for anything. Doesnt teach me to be better gamer. Also rewards for your effort in Mythic isnt really worth. Back in TBC it was new bosses and new raids what opened for you after you defeated boss. Now only thing you will get is just another virtual item. I play to experience content and world no to get better gear, titles or achievements. Thats why there is no point for me and i beliave for most players go further then LFR.

In short: If game is open to everyone no matter if good or bad you can call such game ,,casual,,.

[The One Percent]

It's simple. If people talk about WoW being casual, ask them to link their armory and their mythic progression or high PvP ratings. It's not that the game is casual, it's that they are poor players and want to blame something other than themselves.

[Nights]

so yea im vanilla palyer, and yea wow it is super casual, for now, im doing my arena for like hour maby two if i a have more time, 3 raid in week 3 hours ea,hc 7/7 mythic 1/7, then im offline so yea it is super casual

[The Kao]

,,Casual games,, are not about difficulty but about accessability. Hardcore games have mostlikely 1 single difficulty (the hardest one) like Dark Souls, Ultima Online, Demons Souls and Vannila, in WoW it was TBC where you couldnt lower difficulty when you struggled. Hardcore games reward for hard work players what deservers to be rewarded. Games like this work with snowflake effect where good players are put above average and are rewarded with better content how it pretty much should be. WoW doesnt do that. In WoW you can pick difficulty and finish whole content no matter if you are bad or good player you have always access to the content.

That's it. People tend confuse difficulty with accessibility and fail to understand that some kind of entry level is required, a number of lower end players is necessary so that the game can prosper and survive. The error is to understand the easier content as the main content; if you're really hardcore (and I personally doubt that more than ~10% of those who "feel" they are hardcore gamers really qualify as such) then you don't care about the fact that a game has an easy, normal, hard mode. You don't care how easy it is for new players to enter. You go straight for ultra hard from the start and ignore everyone who isn't in the same tier. Getting all worked up about others and looking down on them and the whole game just because they're given a chance you never needed, now that's what I call low.

[Deleted]

That's it. People tend confuse difficulty with accessibility and fail to understand that some kind of entry level is required, a number of lower end players is necessary so that the game can prosper and survive. The error is to understand the easier content as the main content; if you're really hardcore (and I personally doubt that more than ~10% of those who "feel" they are hardcore gamers really qualify as such) then you don't care about the fact that a game has an easy, normal, hard mode. You don't care how easy it is for new players to enter. You go straight for ultra hard from the start and ignore everyone who isn't in the same tier. Getting all worked up about others and looking down on them and the whole game just because they're given a chance you never needed, now that's what I call low.

Well thats double edge sword. Create accessible content and you loss motivation for players go progress harder raids. Unaccessible games are by nature more fun to play and better experince since are mo rewarding and player feel more successfull and special and but are not played by many. Thats was upto Blizzard if they want greate MMO with lower profit played by lets say 5m players or Accessible MMO played by many. Money spoked and Blizzard went for more casual game but they had to sacrifice yourney aspect of the game. They end up with higher sup numbers but game is pretty average MMO what gets boring really fast.

I was hardcore till Blizzard gived us LFR at this point i didnt see my efort in raiding properli rewarded. What to say i always want be in games better then others and i want shine above them, look down on those scrubs enjoying my success thats why WoW isnt game for me anymore.

[Saberstrike]

'Casual' in gamer terms turned into a swear-word. There are casual players -- meaning, those who play a few hours each week -- who're legitimately better than 99% of supposed 'hardcore raiders'.

I feel like what people are saying when they mean 'casual' is that, at large, and outside of mythic raiding, very few things in the game have legitimate challenge any more, and those that do feel so disconnected from the game-world it honestly feels like a bit of a chore to do them -- things like challenge modes or rated battlegrounds.

If you're a player who's looking for a connected world experience without any interest in instancing it up then the game could not be more casual than it is right now.

[RigidCannibal]

It's a good thing that WoW is more "casual," considering the classic game was essentially a more casual answer to the ridiculous grinds of Everquest prior to Wow's release.