[Megathread] ArcheAge - "Sand-Box" MMORPG

[ReD-EyeD]

There is a huge discussion on the topic

Just type on google: "Is Skyrim considered a sandbox game?"

Well, I never questioned the fact that majority of people are idiots.

About the game:
I played the very first 2 months of EU release and I quite enjoyed it. It is certainly a proper sandbox game especially if you like more straightforward stuff like caravan trading and farming.
The thing I didn't like is class balancing/interactions. There were only a few good builds with a plety of trash ones. But it was a long time ago already and I don't know how it's right now. Surely wasn't an unfixable thing.

[Big Thanks]

Well, I never questioned the fact that majority of people are idiots.

About the game:
I played the very first 2 months of EU release and I quite enjoyed it. It is certainly a proper sandbox game especially if you like more straightforward stuff like caravan trading and farming.
The thing I didn't like is class balancing/interactions. There were only a few good builds with a plety of trash ones. But it was a long time ago already and I don't know how it's right now. Surely wasn't an unfixable thing.

Its advertised to have 200+ different ways to play the game, correct?
The main reason why i want to play it

I hope if there is at least 50 ways to play the game, i will be extremely happy! Even if its only 25% of what is advertised ahah

[ReD-EyeD]

Its advertised to have 200+ different ways to play the game, correct?
The main reason why i want to play it

I hope if there is at least 50 ways to play the game, i will be extremely happy! Thats 25% of what is advertised ahah

Not sure what you mean by "ways" though.
Imagine a classic WoW where you can combine 3 talent trees from any classes like Subtlety + Beastmastery + Prot warrior and such

[Lora]

I remember being so hyped for archeage and enjoying it for a couple months before it quickly devolved into p2w trash and bots farm galore. sad, it had a lot of potential back then.

[Big Thanks]

Not sure what you mean by "ways" though.
Imagine a classic WoW where you can combine 3 talent trees from any classes like Subtlety + Beastmastery + Prot warrior and such

I mean there is 200 possible combinations...or so i was told.

[dlld]

I mean there is 200 possible combinations...or so i was told.

https://archeagecodex.com/us/calc/ press 'possible classes' do note that the new swiftblade isn't in there which will add like.. 20 more classes or something. Obviously a lot of them will be simply trash.

[Big Thanks]

https://archeagecodex.com/us/calc/ press 'possible classes' do note that the new swiftblade isn't in there which will add like.. 20 more classes or something. Obviously a lot of them will be simply trash.

Oh! Thanks for the site! It counts for 165 classes, without having in consideration the new class.

[G3 Ghost]

This, you can have 1m different combinations, it wont matter unless they are all viable.

[Big Thanks]

This, you can have 1m different combinations, it wont matter unless they are all viable.

In PvP i have a routine i do on every single RPG i play:

First i try to find the completely overpowered Tank/Self Healing yet does damage spec Bruiser
Then i get tired of said build and try Glass Cannon.
Tired...full utility
Tired...full support/CC machine

Thats pretty much my train of thought in every new MMORPG i grab.

[Super Kami Dende]

No. Then pretty much every game is a sandbox game, including World of Warcraft.

No, Because Most games give very clearly defined direction through story and linear questing. Whereas games like Minecraft and such which are considered Sandbox are games where the direction is derived directly from the Player.

[G3 Ghost]

Solid gameplay loop, sure.

But if you have 185 combinations and only three are viable, you only really have three.

[Super Black Man of Steal]

No, Because Most games give very clearly defined direction through story and linear questing. Whereas games like Minecraft and such which are considered Sandbox are games where the direction is derived directly from the Player.

Because Minecraft doesn't have any content. You don't mean direction, you mean content.

You can have content and still decide what content to do and in which order, like in WoW. WoW has content, but you decide what direction you take. You can start a character, and go to whichever zone you want and quest in whichever area you want to. That is more true now than ever, because of how level scaling works. Hell if you want to you could also grind mobs and spam dungeons. Nobody tells you how to level. Everything gives experience. You could pick flowers to max level and stay on the Wandering Isle if you wanted to.

So it clearly isn't about direction at all. A sandbox is a playground where you create the content. It's the equivalent of staying in Duskwood and roleplaying as part of a Worgen cult and ignoring all of the content the game has created for you. That is not a matter of direction, but a matter of content. You ignore the content that is available and make your own content. The players are the content.

[ReD-EyeD]

Because Minecraft doesn't have any content. You don't mean direction, you mean content.

You can have content and still decide what content to do and in which order, like in WoW. WoW has content, but you decide what direction you take. You can start a character, and go to whichever zone you want and quest in whichever area you want to. That is more true now than ever, because of how level scaling works. Hell if you want to you could also grind mobs and spam dungeons. Nobody tells you how to level. Everything gives experience. You could pick flowers to max level and stay on the Wandering Isle if you wanted to.

So it clearly isn't about direction at all. A sandbox is a playground where you create the content. It's the equivalent of staying in Duskwood and roleplaying as part of a Worgen cult and ignoring all of the content the game has created for you. That is not a matter of direction, but a matter of content. You ignore the content that is available and make your own content. The players are the content.

You don't know what "content" is and you're using it like a random buzzword, am I right?

[Ielenia]

Because Minecraft doesn't have any content. You don't mean direction, you mean content.

"Content" is not just "Start -> Go to point A -> Kill/collect B -> Return to start" written, clear quests in which you speak to a NPC to begin.

Minecraft has loads of content. From its crafting, to the biomes, mining, building and interactions. Forest mansions, villages, desert temples, nether fortresses, strongholds, end portals, End Dragon... the game has a lot of content.

[Big Thanks]

Because Minecraft doesn't have any content. You don't mean direction, you mean content.

You can have content and still decide what content to do and in which order, like in WoW. WoW has content, but you decide what direction you take. You can start a character, and go to whichever zone you want and quest in whichever area you want to. That is more true now than ever, because of how level scaling works. Hell if you want to you could also grind mobs and spam dungeons. Nobody tells you how to level. Everything gives experience. You could pick flowers to max level and stay on the Wandering Isle if you wanted to.

So it clearly isn't about direction at all. A sandbox is a playground where you create the content. It's the equivalent of staying in Duskwood and roleplaying as part of a Worgen cult and ignoring all of the content the game has created for you. That is not a matter of direction, but a matter of content. You ignore the content that is available and make your own content. The players are the content.

Take a look at this interview about patch 8.2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcxLdMrbWUY&t=15m0s

Blizzard officially called its content "sandbox" and also mentioned Timeless Isle as sandbox
He said the word "sandbox" 4 times from min 15 to min 17.

See for yourself

[Super Black Man of Steal]

Take a look at this interview about patch 8.2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcxLdMrbWUY&t=15m0s

Blizzard officially called its content "sandbox" and also mentioned Timeless Isle as sandbox
He said the word "sandbox" 4 times from min 15 to min 17.

See for yourself

Is World of Warcraft a sandbox game? I think most people would certainly not call it that, just because it has some sandbox elements. Timeless Isle is certainly mostly sandbox because it has very little content, because that's what they wanted to get away with. Designing an island where players would just go around and kill mobs and they could get away with not designing quests that told an actual story. It meant they could get away with putting as little time as possible into that island.

And what you and other people here are arguing is that things like quests aren't sandbox, because quests tell you to go somewhere, therefore the game leads you by the hand and doesn't let you decide what you wanna do. So this is why sandbox games often just define themselves by a lack of content. Because content, in the form of quests and a story that is being told often makes people like you feel like you are "on rails" and you do not decide what direction to take.

So decide for yourself, is WoW a sandbox game or not? If yes, then how do you reconcile that with a linear story and linear questing. If you say no, then what is it that makes it not sandbox? If you say direction, then what does that mean? I can decide what to do in WoW. Just cause the game has content, doesn't mean I have to do it or that I have to do it in any way the designers feel like I should.

To me a sandbox game is more something like an editor. That's essentially what Minecraft is.

[Big Thanks]

Is World of Warcraft a sandbox game? I think most people would certainly not call it that, just because it has some sandbox elements.

WoW is not a sandbox game, but things like timeless isle and mechagon are...sand-boxy? So it has some elements

Timeless Isle is certainly mostly sandbox because it has very little content, because that's what they wanted to get away with. Designing an island where players would just go around and kill mobs and they could get away with not designing quests that told an actual story. It meant they could get away with putting as little time as possible into that island.

No, a sandbox quest can give as much trouble designing as a typical themepark quest.
Let me give you an example of a sandbox quest:
-You are put in a world without any kind of direction.
-You enter a random cave
-At the end of the cave there is a dead person on a chair with a open book on his lap.
-Again, without any kind of direction from the game...you decide to read the book...because you were curious about the dead body...in hopes you would find more information about said person.
-In the book you find he was part of a secret organization of assassins and you get the secret password as well as the location of the Headquarters
-Yada yada yada your quest continues........

Why is this sandbox?
Random cave
Random book
Random adventure
WITHOUT markers on map or any kind of guidance!
Just "curiosity" from the player created this adventure

I hope you understand ofcourse, this is open to debate if its sandbox or not...but even Blizzard agrees it is! As they called Timeless Isle "sandbox" and all it has is this kind of stuff.

[Super Black Man of Steal]

WoW is not a sandbox game, but things like timeless isle and mechagon are...sand-boxy? So it has some elements

That's exactly what I am saying. You know what makes them sandboxy? You know what these places have in common? A lack of content. They have some quests, but very minimal. So sandbox means a lack of content. Unless you wanna say that the fact that the mobs exist already makes it content, but that is a very low-bar definition of what counts as content.

- - - Updated - - -

a sandbox quest

"Sandbox quest" is an oxymoron. A quest tells you what to do. If sandbox means a lack of direction, then a quest, that tells you what to do, is antithetical to the concept of the sandbox.

[Big Thanks]

"Sandbox quest" is an oxymoron. A quest tells you what to do. If sandbox means a lack of direction than a quest, that tells you what to do, is antithetical to the concept of the sandbox.

The way you are presented with the quest can be considered "sandbox"!

If you were exposed to a quest without any kind of direction...you just experienced a sandbox quest...

Just because its a quest it doesnt mean it has "rails"
"Rails" is seeing this on the minimap:

QUEST HERE <----------------------------------
NEXT STEP OF QUEST HERE <--------------------------------

[Super Black Man of Steal]

The way you are presented with the quest can be considered "sandbox"!

If you were exposed to a quest without any kind of direction...you just experienced a sandbox quest...

Just because its a quest it doesnt mean it has "rails"
"Rails" is seeing this on the minimap:

QUEST HERE <----------------------------------
NEXT STEP OF QUEST HERE <--------------------------------

I don't really see that. As long as there is a quest, you are being directed.