May be stop wasting resoures on experiments?

[Makabreska]

Bad to you mr internet troll. Seriously toxic people on mmo-champion as always that cant handle their viewpoints being challenged by the larger majority. Why do I even type this...You prolly think streamers hurt you in a bad place. If you think a life time player with deep knowledge of games and especially wow does not know better than you...I like the list, And hello: I have 700 days played in wow, and before I kinda stopped retail wow in Shadowlands I had as much nerd points as Asmongold (I was 1# druid on Ravencrest, the biggest alliance server in wow, especially EU, and I was top 1000 world on achivements), even had 5 more mounts than him, and I sat on 35 million gold which I worked my ass off on the AH being smart And no I didnt flip lego's, and I had been making that gold since end of wotlk.

This literally reads like WoW version of Navy Seals copypasta.

[Djuntas]

Did you prefer the old list or did your opinion also magically change in the same way as asmons.

It was his own reflections, and I dont recall the video to well all I know it was long as live streams that aint cut off usually are but enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rli-kvMcCb0

And imagine that I knew how to look up another source

- - - Updated - - -

This literally reads like WoW version of Navy Seals copypasta.

Well aint Asmongold the wow version of navy seals? A lot of people on this forum make him sound like a clown that has never played the game or even knows what wow is. Up to BFA he even was raiding mythic (Check his logs from Legion). Fuck I havent raided properly since Cata, so he knows waaay more of wow than I do. And hes a much better player than I ever was too. And hes still a good player today. His incel-level of transmog knowledge knowledge is scarry by itself, or him playing wow geoguesser.

Whatever mmo-champion people hates streamers "cause the make money and shit playing games".

[Ghostile]

if explaining your stance on something involves saying "go google it yourself" , then its a pretty flimsy stance. surely you are able to articulate your opinions on something?

Your average asmon fan, unfortunately

[Echo of Soul]

Blizzard should stop designing the game for the top 200 players that play the game as a job, that's what has been slowly killing the game ever since WOD. Remove all forms of difficulty sliders, content should only exist in one version and be clearable by the average player before the next patch and without resorting to nerfs.

[Schizoide]

No, aspirational challenges are critical in these games. Blizzard is servicing casuals more than ever these days, world content and ilvl updates, tons of activities that are basically aimed at collectors, follower dungeons, etc. If there was only one difficulty and it was the same as normal raids or heroic dungeons today, the game would lose a lot of its thrill even for casual players who never go beyond that-- and it would lose all the sweaty kids.

I'm not saying casuals/collectors are being served with the same attention as raiders/m+/PvPers, though, far from it! The 11 level legacy range sucks rocks, completely killed collecting for me as I already have almost everything from 2+ expansions back. Worst thing ever-- MoP Timerunning will get me zero old mounts. LFR is so fundamentally awful and unfixable that it should be completely removed and replaced with something better-- maybe instant queues and fill all the extra slots with NPCs or something. Follower dungeons are a nice start but there's no particular reason to do them more than once. And finally, some of the recent solo content like Plunderstorm has rewards attractive to PvE collectors but fundamentally requires PvP for reasonably fast progression and is extremely grindy otherwise, even after today's 50% buff.

They're trying to cater to casuals and collectors now, though, which is a huge improvement.

[VMSmith]

Blizzard is servicing casuals more than ever these days, world content and ilvl updates, tons of activities that are basically aimed at collectors, follower dungeons, etc.

If this is true, and the recently derived sub numbers by Bellular are fairly accurate, then it would seem that servicing casuals more and more is the correct path since that's increasing subs.

If there was only one difficulty and it was the same as normal raids or heroic dungeons today, the game would lose a lot of its thrill even for casual players who never go beyond that

Blizzard has flatly stated that this does not happen.

[Schizoide]

Of course it won't happen, I was just replying to the guy above me!

I would interpret those graphs as saying Dragonflight has better retention than previous expansions, rather than attributing it specifically and solely to servicing casuals. I know people that joined back up just for dragonflying, because it's fun. And we all know once you start playing WoW again it usually isn't for one month. Also classic and particularly classic SoD had a huuuuge impact and the graph lumps classic and retail together so it's impossible to tell how much it contributed-- and possibly, dominated. I have zero interest in classic myself and always figured it would fail but it is absolutely clear I was wrong and lots of people love it.

[Ereb]

Well aint Asmongold the wow version of navy seals?.

This explains oh so much

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard should stop designing the game for the top 200 players that play the game as a job, that's what has been slowly killing the game ever since WOD. Remove all forms of difficulty sliders, content should only exist in one version and be clearable by the average player before the next patch and without resorting to nerfs.

"been killing the game since wod"

The game is currently the most healthy it's arguably been in at least a decade or more lol

[Kisuke411]

fomo content brings in money, solo mode in a MMORPG is something nobody is asking for, there are 100s of solo RPG games go play those

That is patently untrue. Literally, millions of people are asking for more solo-friendly content to do outside of raiding/dungeon content. That's the whole reason Delves are coming, why they ripped follower dungeons from FFXIV, and why there's more outdoor solo content in Dragon Isles than the last 3 expansions combined.

FOMO content brings in money for a patch cycle, if that. Look at the release of WoW classic and the subscriber number increases then and you can expect anywhere between 1/3rd to 1/8th of those numbers when it comes to a rerelease of Mists of Pandaria, one of the most controversial expansions ever released.

Legitimate, healthy, long-term changes to the structure of the game are the only thing that's going to make WoW as popular as it was 15 years ago during the WotLK-Cata era, and with that comes the money Blizzard was making 15 years ago before they had to sellout to Microsoft daddy. Now you can expect Blizzard to go the way of Mojang and how they've turned Minecraft into a monetization engine that makes the Windows platform blush.

- - - Updated - - -

This explains oh so much

- - - Updated - - -



"been killing the game since wod"

The game is currently the most healthy it's arguably been in at least a decade or more lol

I'd argue the game in its current state is hardly more healthy than MoP-WoD era. It might have had boosts from Classic, SoD, or otherwise in the more recent era, but Dragonflight is a far cry from WotLK in terms of setting, theme, story, features, class design, and even class balance. I think the only things that have legitimately improved are solo content, alt management, and simple QoL things that one expects from a modern MMO, not just the market frontrunner.

Even the music in the TBC-WotLK-Cata era was better, though that is a far more subjective metric than any of the others I mentioned.

[VMSmith]

I'd argue the game in its current state is hardly more healthy than MoP-WoD era. It might have had boosts from Classic, SoD, or otherwise in the more recent era, but Dragonflight is a far cry from WotLK in terms of setting, theme, story, features, class design, and even class balance. I think the only things that have legitimately improved are solo content, alt management, and simple QoL things that one expects from a modern MMO, not just the market frontrunner.

I can't argue the general state of the game compared to a previous era because we just don't have the data, but we do have Blizzards statement that retention has been phenomenal in Dragonflight. I imagine that retention is due to the improvements in solo/alt/QoL that you mention and is why Blizzard is introducing delves. Maybe they've finally figured out that manual-group activities don't really carry the game very much and it can no longer afford to cater primarily to such playstyle.

[Ghost of Cow]

Whiners: "Blizz has no ideas! They don't do anything new or innovative!"

Also Whiners: "Blizz should stop wasting resources on new ideas!"

[PenguinChan]

Well aint Asmongold the wow version of navy seals? A lot of people on this forum make him sound like a clown that has never played the game or even knows what wow is. Up to BFA he even was raiding mythic (Check his logs from Legion). Fuck I havent raided properly since Cata, so he knows waaay more of wow than I do. And hes a much better player than I ever was too. And hes still a good player today. His incel-level of transmog knowledge knowledge is scarry by itself, or him playing wow geoguesser.

Asmon can't even do today's Mythic difficulty and has routinely relied on his viewers and friends to even raid / play at that level before he quit WoW. The amount of times he complains about crappy players but then botches simple mechanics and blows up raids was funny as hell to see at times. Let's be real here: People didn't watch him because of his skill lol. There were / are far better players in that department, but they aren't as entertaining as he is.

[Osmeric]

Asmon can't even do today's Mythic difficulty

So, he's more representative of the player population than those that can. Sounds like an endorsement.

[Schizoide]

I don't know how representative he is or not, I just know I find him annoying. But diff'rent strokes.

[WowIsDead64]

Players, who are against "easy" games just don't understand their concept. Game - is very wide term. But I would narrow it to just 2 things:
1) Training
2) Entertaining

Initially nature has invented games for training purposes only. That's where "You either do it or not" concept works. And here is where "easy" games can be treated as bad due to "low hanging fruit" and "walk in a park" concepts. If you want to play football - you have to follow football's rules instead of complaining about them being way too hard. Because at the end we want to determine, who's the best football player in a world. But human - is much more complex creature. He also needs entertaining. And that's where "rules" no longer work. Player entertains himself as he wants.

That is concept of casual games. Entertainment. And it isn't compatible with concept of hardcore games, that are mostly about challenge and competition. And it seems like devs just don't understand this concept. Their game is about showing to others who's the best raider in a world. Some kind of sport simulator. If you're bad raider - then you're just bad raider in this game, that's it. We wouldn't be able to compare players with each other, if we wouldn't have some sort of measure to do it. But causal games are different. We play them, just because we like process itself. And this can't be changed. If I like to play with flying - this just can't be changed. If grinding random chests is addictive for me - then making this process more difficult via adding jump puzzles would simply break game for me.

So casual games are about options. They just can't be "on a rails" games. Many games have "fun" modes, where players can simply remove all obstacles between them and fun. Wow isn't such game. It starts to become such game, but via some weird way. We don't need completely unrelated mini-games on Wow's engine. At the end we want to play Wow, otherwise we would play something else. So, it would be better for devs to implement some sort of "sandbox" mode. There are two ways to implement it. Both have their pros and cons. 1) Game-wide mode. It would change whole game, so some players would whine about other players not playing "as intended", but would use existing content, so no extra development resources would be required. 2) Special casual isle. It would be optional content, that wouldn't affect core game, but it would require extra development resources. I'm not sure, which one is better for me. I would want to have both.

[Ghostile]

So, he's more representative of the player population than those that can. Sounds like an endorsement.

You may want to read the rest of the post.

[Smeeh]

I'd argue the game in its current state is hardly more healthy than MoP-WoD era. It might have had boosts from Classic, SoD, or otherwise in the more recent era, but Dragonflight is a far cry from WotLK in terms of setting, theme, story, features, class design, and even class balance. I think the only things that have legitimately improved are solo content, alt management, and simple QoL things that one expects from a modern MMO, not just the market frontrunner.

Even the music in the TBC-WotLK-Cata era was better, though that is a far more subjective metric than any of the others I mentioned.

"The healthiest its been in a decade or more"
"Well these expansions from a decade or more ago were better!"

Yes, Wod did end less than a decade ago, but not by much.

[Djuntas]

This explains oh so much

- - - Updated - - -



"been killing the game since wod"

The game is currently the most healthy it's arguably been in at least a decade or more lol

How do you know retail wow is doing well? Every time I log on its barren, granted I also play alliance so...Only reason why wow is not 1 million subs or about that is due to classic versions of wow helping with numbers. WOD had at least better sub numbers, even start of Shadowlands was promising.

And explain your stance on Asmongold. Specificly why do you think he does not matter for the broader wow community? Nobody wants to clarify their stance. I dont agree with him on most things (I am also not from USA so), but I think what he says about wow is very true. So again explain yourself.

[FelPlague]

How do you know retail wow is doing well? Every time I log on its barren, granted I also play alliance so...Only reason why wow is not 1 million subs or about that is due to classic versions of wow helping with numbers. WOD had at least better sub numbers, even start of Shadowlands was promising.

And explain your stance on Asmongold. Specificly why do you think he does not matter for the broader wow community? Nobody wants to clarify their stance. I dont agree with him on most things (I am also not from USA so), but I think what he says about wow is very true. So again explain yourself.

How do we know retail wow is doing well? The analytics. Which show M+ still has record high numbers, as does raiding.
"Only reason wow is not 1 million subs is wow classic" lololol what?
"Wod had better sub numbers" no, no it did not, what the fuck are you on about? "Even start of shadowlands was promising
yeah, so was the start of wod, that does not make the expansion good.

Because asmon wants to remove the game, and make it a boss battle simulator. He has commonly said he just wants everything but raid bosses removed, consumes. trash, travel, open world content, reps, your collectables, all gone.
he does not want wow, he wants a new game, he has been pleading blizz literally just shut down wow and make a new game for a long time now, he says the game as is, is too cluttered, there is too much stuff, so blizz should just delete it all, and if you think you can say that "matters for the broader wow community" you are insane.

[Djuntas]

Asmon can't even do today's Mythic difficulty and has routinely relied on his viewers and friends to even raid / play at that level before he quit WoW. The amount of times he complains about crappy players but then botches simple mechanics and blows up raids was funny as hell to see at times. Let's be real here: People didn't watch him because of his skill lol. There were / are far better players in that department, but they aren't as entertaining as he is.

Hes just rusty and out of the loop. Ive seen him playing other games where he seems good I dont play mythic+ myself, which sadly has become the only end-game in WoW that really matters. Asmongold specificly talked about him not enjoying scaleable content be it rifts in Diablo 3 or this mythic+ system. In fact he has said he liked legion mythic+ the most.

But a dude with parses like this in legion is not a bad player: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...one=17#zone=10

And yes I know parses can be cheesed, he talked about that as well, but you cant cheese such numbers all the time. I did parse a bit on my warlock back in naxx25 in wotlkc, and yes sometimes it was luck, but other times it was good play with slight luck.