Fallout TV series

[rhorle]

The thing is, for someone that is part of the BoS, he has no moral, integrity. He did not earn anything, so what if Titus was a piece of shit to him? He let him die at the first opportunity and stole his armor, tried to kill his new squire right away after just a few words making no effort to explain(I was hopping they would bond after everything they went through). Stole the fusion core at Vault 4, became a knight doing nothing at the last episode.

Isn't that the point and one of the general themes on the show. That the wasteland gets inside everyone and no one is immune. It shows that the BoS is not a "good" organization to viewers that might not be familiar with the lore. Despite their fancy ranks and appearance they can be as corrupt or self serving as anyone else in the wasteland.

Elder Quintus did promise that Maximus would be his "co-leader" if he helped deliver cold fusion artifact to them. So he wasn't promoted for doing nothing.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Isn't that the point and one of the general themes on the show. That the wasteland gets inside everyone and no one is immune. It shows that the BoS is not a "good" organization to viewers that might not be familiar with the lore. Despite their fancy ranks and appearance they can be as corrupt or self serving as anyone else in the wasteland.

Elder Quintus did promise that Maximus would be his "co-leader" if he helped deliver cold fusion artifact to them. So he wasn't promoted for doing nothing.

Sure, but the characters still need to reflect the faction they are with, saying that the wasteland gets inside everyone can't be used as an excuse, otherwise no factions would exist as at the end of the day everyone would be the same... Maximus is just annoying and doesn't add anything of value imo. If we actually got a member of the BoS with their values as one of the main characters it would have been way more interesting.While still showing the problems inside the organization, that wouldn't change anything.

While the elder indeed promised him something, that didn't change the last scene, where he did nothing and was "forced" to be a knight while just going with the flow.

[rhorle]

If we actually got a member of the BoS with their values as one of the main characters it would have been way more interesting.

Considering the comments about replacing squires we did meet actual members of the Brotherhood. They just aren't as virtuous as you want. Their depiction isn't that far off from past ones. A lot of the Brotherhood depends on who is leading them and those leaders have always stuck to whatever they preach. Plus the player character in Fallout 4 pretty much ascends the ranks for completing tasks. They even become a paladin after being told to kill a high-ranking BoS member that turns out to be a synth.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Considering the comments about replacing squires we did meet actual members of the Brotherhood. They just aren't as virtuous as you want. Their depiction isn't that far off from past ones. A lot of the Brotherhood depends on who is leading them and those leaders have always stuck to whatever they preach. Plus the player character in Fallout 4 pretty much ascends the ranks for completing tasks. They even become a paladin after being told to kill a high-ranking BoS member that turns out to be a synth.

I'm talking about a true member being one of the main characters, not that they do not exist.

[Endus]

If we actually got a member of the BoS with their values as one of the main characters it would have been way more interesting.

Those largely are the "values" of the BOS. They don't value life and will, at the drop of a hat, brutalize and extort wastelanders. Where they don't murder them on sight for any trace of deviance or mutation. They're thieves, who raid and pillage for technology, and do not respect anyone else's ownership unless those others can protect their holdings by force. They're a fascist, elitist band of cultist dicks. They stand out from the better class of raiders only by being generally cleaner and better-equipped, but their ethics aren't that different. They'll just as readily lay waste to a wastelander encampment or a vault if the residents have tech the Brotherhood want and the residents won't hand over on demand.

The few times you meet exceptions (Lyon's Pride, Danse), they're usually A> under serious pressure and B> at odds with the Brotherhood somehow, ideologically.

It isn't "the wasteland getting inside everyone". Their core ideals are brutalistic and xenophobic.

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Plus the player character in Fallout 4 pretty much ascends the ranks for completing tasks. They even become a paladin after being told to kill a high-ranking BoS member that turns out to be a synth.

Yeah, but Maxson's a Nazi and if you side with him, you don't get to pull his neat coat off his corpse.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Those largely are the "values" of the BOS. They don't value life and will, at the drop of a hat, brutalize and extort wastelanders. Where they don't murder them on sight for any trace of deviance or mutation. They're thieves, who raid and pillage for technology, and do not respect anyone else's ownership unless those others can protect their holdings by force. They're a fascist, elitist band of cultist dicks. They stand out from the better class of raiders only by being generally cleaner and better-equipped, but their ethics aren't that different. They'll just as readily lay waste to a wastelander encampment or a vault if the residents have tech the Brotherhood want and the residents won't hand over on demand.

The few times you meet exceptions (Lyon's Pride, Danse), they're usually A> under serious pressure and B> at odds with the Brotherhood somehow, ideologically.

It isn't "the wasteland getting inside everyone". Their core ideals are brutalistic and xenophobic.

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Yeah, but Maxson's a Nazi and if you side with him, you don't get to pull his neat coat off his corpse.

I don't know what your point is. I'm talking about Maximus not reflecting a member of the BoS, and being pretty much nothing to be honest. While they are radicals, they do have morals and integrity as I said before, have a code, a lot of things that would be very interesting to see and go in depth while watching the series. Everyone that played Fallout knows that no faction is the good guys.

As I said earlier, for me it would be way more interesting to get a real member as one of the main characters instead of "whatever" Maximus.

[rhorle]

As I said earlier, for me it would be way more interesting to get a real member as one of the main characters instead of "whatever" Maximus.

What if Maximus is a reflection of a "real" member though? We know there were different views among the BoS as the "outcasts" that split off of the FO3 Chapter wanted to stick to their core ideal of seeking out technology instead of helping the people of the Capital. Even though outcasts are presented as the bad guys of that split they are really the true Brotherhood. New Vegas even references that.

[formerShandalay]

I don't know what your point is. I'm talking about Maximus not reflecting a member of the BoS, and being pretty much nothing to be honest. While they are radicals, they do have morals and integrity as I said before, have a code, a lot of things that would be very interesting to see and go in depth while watching the series. Everyone that played Fallout knows that no faction is the good guys.

As I said earlier, for me it would be way more interesting to get a real member as one of the main characters instead of "whatever" Maximus.

I think I understand what you mean. You could go the other way round and give a more idealistic member of the BoS as the point of view from which to see the Wasteland and maybe also the faults in the BoS itself. Like... take someone with Danse's pov. Or maybe even Haylen, who is not a knight, but pretty much bought into Danse's ideology and tries to live up to it, then starts to question everything once she sees the reality of it. Make her a bit tougher overall and you could have a nice character to explore the BoS point of view too.

I personally still think someone like Maximus is the better choice and they may want to explore some more BoS stuff with him getting actually turned into a 'believer' by the Elder, while he tries to make the BoS live up to itself again. You can do that better with someone who has not really had much experience with the faction and especially its ideology/code.
But I understand why someone more Brotherhood-like might also be appealing.

[rhorle]

Or maybe even Haylen, who is not a knight, but pretty much bought into Danse's ideology and tries to live up to it, then starts to question everything once she sees the reality of it. Make her a bit tougher overall and you could have a nice character to explore the BoS point of view too.

Haylen and Maximus are pretty much the same in that regard. Maximus didn't have the good people to train and rely on. That caused that selfishness we see when he lets Titus die. He eventually does lean more into the ideology as we can see the character grow. The ending might have jaded him though

[formerShandalay]

Haylen and Maximus are pretty much the same in that regard. Maximus didn't have the good people to train and rely on. That caused that selfishness we see when he lets Titus die. He eventually does lean more into the ideology as we can see the character grow. The ending might have jaded him though

My take on that was more that it seemed like he was developing his own 'morals', based on what he'd like to be. He definitely did not agree with BoS policy regarding ghouls, as he let Thaddeus go and even gave them the wrong head. And he kept looking for Lucy in the fight instead of putting the emphasis on killing lowlifes and 'collecting' technology. Basically he was doing what he wanted, but it seemed like he was trying to be a better person than before and actually cared about something. Just not the BoS. To me it even seemed he tried to talk his friend into coming to Vault 33 with him and Lucy before they went to war.

I agree though, the end surely did something to him. They made him their hero and now he's trapped with them and their Elder who wants to build a new Brotherhood, when he finally decided what he wanted was a peaceful life with nice people. Maybe he'll step up and actually try to build something worthwhile, but it sure won't be easy or peaceful. We'll see in the next season, I hope.

As I said, I really liked the character, and I think he was also a good choice for the story, because a 'mean badass' and a 'morals/ethics type' were already taken, but I do understand that having a character that is already an established member of the Brotherhood with all of their ideology mostly ingrained in him may have worked too. Would have to be the opposite character development from Maximus, from ideologically brutal to more thinking and somewhat responsible instead of from insecure and selfish to more thinking and responsible. Depending on what they want to do with the character going forward, the end-point in this season would have had to be the same.

[xChurch]

Maximus is "The Ugly" in the show which is a homage to "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly". You're not really supposed to like him perse. Though "The Ugly" is the (arguably) best character in that movie.

[Koriani]

Episode 2 was more interesting. Love the way Lucy fawns over Maximus, a real PoS. Questions to be answered arose, which is nice, but some part of me hates that people don't actually communicate their knowledge, just to advance the plot.

Oh, well on to ep3...

I mean really that's true for most shows/movies.

As its something I notice too, in most shows. If people just communicated what they already knew - most shows would be over much faster, or there would be much LESS "drama" or "conflict." =D. I've just had to let it go as "that's tv/movie writing for you." But I do notice it, constantly!

"Gee.. if person X just admitted they knew Y - we'd be done."

[Fabinas]

I mean really that's true for most shows/movies.

As its something I notice too, in most shows. If people just communicated what they already knew - most shows would be over much faster, or there would be much LESS "drama" or "conflict." =D. I've just had to let it go as "that's tv/movie writing for you." But I do notice it, constantly!

"Gee.. if person X just admitted they knew Y - we'd be done."

What i find really annoying is when one character asks something about and instead of getting a straight answer they get some vague mumbo jumbo.

I find the drama that happens between people that haven't got the full idea or picture more believable. The artificially constructed drama or conflict seems like a cheap copout from writers.

[PACOX]

Maximus is "The Ugly" in the show, which is a homage to "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly". You're not really supposed to like him perse. Though "The Ugly" is the (arguably) best character in that movie.

I'm trying to figure out when people being started to believe they must agree with all characters in a show, all characters must book obviously good or bad, and characters can't just be flawed/stupid.

Good writing allows for characters you can't identify with, characters that allowed to be flawed, "unlikeable" (unlikeable as a person, but it fits the story/background of the character). IDK I've actually started to appreciate characters that are consistently flawed because they feel more authentic. Already said it in this thread but Maximus feels like how some people play the games. He might be frustrating, but the things he does make sense as a character not wrapped in the good graces of traditional tropes.

[Very Tired]

Thinking about there almost seems like there's too big of a gap between Cooper learning his wife wants to drop the nuke and end the world so they can take over somehow transitioning to him taking his daughter to that birthday party at the start of the show. How exactly did he deal with learning that information? If Vault Tec dropped the bombs, why didn't his wife at least make sure he and her daughter were safe first? I really hope the only reason he is looking for her is so that he could kill her.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Thinking about there almost seems like there's too big of a gap between Cooper learning his wife wants to drop the nuke and end the world so they can take over somehow transitioning to him taking his daughter to that birthday party at the start of the show. How exactly did he deal with learning that information? If Vault Tec dropped the bombs, why didn't his wife at least make sure he and her daughter were safe first? I really hope the only reason he is looking for her is so that he could kill her.

Well, how Coop deals with finding out his wife is evil is probably something they'll handle in season 2. What we know is they do end up getting divorced. As for why she didn't have her daughter with her... my theory is she had no control over when the bombs were going to be dropped.

[JDL49]

Finished. 7 out of 10 for me. Given that I have never played the game and dislike the genre in movies that's pretty damn good for me. Everything worked pretty well other than Maximus and the Brotherhood. I just did not like the Maximus character and the brutes in suits felt just too random to the plot. Finally, Walton Goggins was damn good.

[Heathy]

The power armour wasn't explained as well as it is in the games, the TV show didn't really push too much on the whole sino-american war and the resource war that lead upto the nuclear exchange. But R&D was in full swing during that point, where one side was always trying to one up the other with some fantastical science fiction invention. There are tons of these in the games various types of weapons and technology that was developed to try to win the war, the power armour is just one of them (it is the one that DID win the war seeing as it gave a massive advantage), The Chinese invented the stealth suit which ofc makes you completely invisible like the stealth suit in Metal Gear Solid.

I liked the show, I think it was on point, I can't think of much to nitpick about it. That it has done well hopefully means it's guaranteed to get another season. Some people weren't too happy about the NCR capital getting nuked but, they were getting kinda imperialistic in new vegas, they weren't really the good guys. Lots of them say they are stretched super thin, with a trickle of supplies actually reaching that far. But they had basically reached a join us or die mentality. or join us or we'll simply make life difficult for you. This is the attitude they had toward villages and settlements. Probably bought on by their lack of a decent supply line but still it made them not exactly beacons of justice. They didn't really say anything about the NCR remnants, maybe they'll be some rangers in season 2.

[Darththeo]

Interesting show, surprised they didn't tie it up and left it open for a Season 2. I was expecting a full closure, but this works as it is wide open.

I enjoyed it. It felt very very much like the Bethesda games, which I enjoy. Great adaptation.

[rayvio]

enjoyable ride and given the destination New Vegas it's going to be a very interesting second season