The Brexit aftermath thread

[Nederbelg]

The problem with the experts you use to quote supposed facts, is they all have one thing in common. They appear to believe in time travel, predicting this that or the other will happen at some vague point in the future. They are exactly the definition of conspiracy theorists and you are guilty of the same by peddling such nonsense.

So let me give you a real fact and Brexit benefit of the day. Something not that will happen, but has happened thanks to Brexit. Here are the headlines from todays Daily Mail...

How this 'Great Fat Lie' has become a Big Fat Truth: Remainers scorned the claim Brexit would give an extra £350m a week to the NHS. In fact, it's now getting an extra £710m.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...oss-clark.html

I think you owe me and everyone on this board an apology. Will we get it? Fat chance, but at least have the decency to stop lying and spreading dangerous misinformation.

"I will not wear a rain coat! Those conspiracy theorists at the met office looking into the future can predict rain, but till it happens I will not believe them."

Dribbles, probably

[Jessicka]

"I will not wear a rain coat! Those conspiracy theorists at the met office looking into the future can predict rain, but till it happens I will not believe them."

Dribbles, probably

Isn't saying 'this or that will happen at some point in the future' the preserve of Brexiteers, who are still saying 'this or that will happen if we do a real Brexit?'

[Odinfrost]

Isn't saying 'this or that will happen at some point in the future' the preserve of Brexiteers, who are still saying 'this or that will happen if we do a real Brexit?'

They do. Pretty sure Dribbles has delved in similar "time travel" himself.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Anybody find it odd that dribbles dropped his "gotcha" article from the Daily Heil, then after it was thoroughly debunked and shown to be laughable he just upped and vanished?

Nope, me neither.

I guess he'll be back when he's been told what to think about Brexit next.

[dribbles]

Anybody find it odd that dribbles dropped his "gotcha" article from the Daily Heil, then after it was thoroughly debunked and shown to be laughable he just upped and vanished?

Nope, me neither.

I guess he'll be back when he's been told what to think about Brexit next.

Except your word salad of a so called response did no such thing in debunking what I claimed and the fact that Brexiteers promised at the time of the referendum to increase NHS funding by a reference figure of £350 million a week if we won the Brexit vote. Which, as a fact it has done, and by more than double at that. We made no reference to, by putting it on said red bus unless you can show otherwise with pictures as evidence, linking the extra funding to annual RPI as you falsely claim so please again stop with the lying and misrepresentations.

Brexiteers promised a simple thing in 2016 and by golly Brexit has delivered as all sensible people will see and the Daily Mail link earlier demonstrates. Moving on, another day another Brexit benefit and according to the UN...

Brexit Britain is now the 3rd-largest major exporter per capita in the World

https://facts4eu.org/news/2024_apr_uk_exports

And another take...

Buoyant British firms continue to benefit from a Brexit bounce - Kemi Badenoch hails Brexit freedoms for powering UK manufacturing juggernaut

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/18...-manufacturing

I could go on, there are so many Brexit benefits to choose from and you don't have to look very far to find them...

[Iliena]

Back to Facts4eu and Daily Express I see

Hey Rishi has done something good for once!:

MPs have backed plans to ban anyone born after 2009 buying cigarettes, effectively ensuring it will become law.

The measures, championed by Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, survived despite opposition from several leading Tory figures - including two ex-PMs.

Health Secretary Victoria Atkins told MPs "there is no liberty in addiction" as she defended the plans.

The Tobacco and Vapes Bill passed by 383 votes to 67.

Ms Atkins said the plan would create a "smoke free generation".

However, several Tory MPs, including ex-PM Liz Truss, argued it would limit personal freedom.

Conservative MPs were given a free vote on the bill, meaning they were not ordered to vote with the government. But full support by Labour's front bench ensured the measures passed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68824493

I see many of the rightwing dingbat's voted against it, what's your view on it Dribbles?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Except your word salad of a so called response did no such thing in debunking what I claimed and the fact that Brexiteers promised at the time of the referendum to increase NHS funding by a reference figure of £350 million a week if we won the Brexit vote. Which, as a fact it has done, and by more than double at that. We made no reference to, by putting it on said red bus unless you can show otherwise with pictures as evidence, linking the extra funding to annual RPI as you falsely claim so please again stop with the lying and misrepresentations.

Doubling down on the lies, eh?

Government spending on healthcare in 2016 was £152.2bn, according to the ONS article linked here.

If you use an online inflation calculator like this one, and put in April 2016 and £152.2m (you have to use millions rather than billions because of a cap in the tool, but the ratio is the same) you will see that if spending on healthcare had risen in line with the cost of living over those 8 years, we'd be spending £222bn a year this year.

Now the latest figures I can find are actually for 2023 (since we're talking about spending, rather than budgets). That was a total of £211.6bn. Now that is missing the last year of increases, but putting that £211bn into the same calculator I linked earlier suggests that equates to £215bn this year.

So, as you can see, the spending in real terms on healthcare by this government since a little red bus lied to us back in 2016 is actually lower. So suggesting that we've somehow spent even £350m a week extra, never mind the £750m you were claiming is, to be blunt, a load of old bollocks. We've spent more, because inflation automatically means that we spend more.

So there you go, your lies broken down in precise details, with links and explanations. Feel free to ignore this, change the subject and pretend like you haven't made yourself look like a complete idiot. That's not what I want you to do, but bitter experience tells me that's exactly how you're going to play this.

[Iliena]

You also have to take population into account when looking at the health spending, in 2016 the UK population was 65.61m, in 2024 its increased to 67.91m.

[Mayhem]

Brexiteers promised a simple thing in 2016 and by golly Brexit has delivered as all sensible people will see and the Daily Mail link earlier demonstrates. Moving on, another day another Brexit benefit and according to the UN...

Brexit Britain is now the 3rd-largest major exporter per capita in the World

https://facts4eu.org/news/2024_apr_uk_exports

According to facts4eu the latest report is using figures from 2022 and because they are so proud of it can't or won't link to the report. I wasn't able to find it. The only thing I found was that your glorious country is still importing more than it is exporting (yes, goods and services combined), well done, very well done, what a win.

Also, your country exported only half a trillion in services, not 1 trillion, it also imported 300bn in services and the import of goods vs export of goods looks obviously terrible.

The UK imported 300bn in goods more than it exported. Woohooo BREXIT!

Here are the real facts.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You also have to take population into account when looking at the health spending, in 2016 the UK population was 65.61m, in 2024 its increased to 67.91m.

Absolutely. But that just makes dribbles lie even worse. Even assuming the population stayed the same they STILL haven't given the NHS £350m a week more in real terms. Make it per capita and the figure looks even worse.

He's lying, and he either doesn't understand how this works or he's pretending not to because he thinks we're as stupid as the Brexiteers he sides with. Either way it's typical dribbles. And now he's gone back to those trade figures that I responded to the first time he posted them. He ignored that response as well.

He just lies, doesn't engage them crawls away until the next time he shitposts. Very low energy.

[Jessicka]

Back to Facts4eu and Daily Express I see

Hey Rishi has done something good for once!:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68824493

I see many of the rightwing dingbat's voted against it, what's your view on it Dribbles?

I hate smoking and I’m very much left wing, but I don’t believe in prohibition. Why hand all the revenue to smugglers and mafioso? Regulate, control and tax.

[dribbles]

Back to Facts4eu and Daily Express I see

Hey Rishi has done something good for once!:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68824493

I see many of the rightwing dingbat's voted against it, what's your view on it Dribbles?

I don't like smoking and wish people would stop, but I also wish and thought I'd voted for a centre right wing government that didn't feel the need to ban everything, embraced Brexit and personal freedoms, including the right to smoke yourself to death if you so choose. It's a stupid law that won't survive long term, we can't even stop people smoking cannabis and worse as it is.

General Election now and get rid of these absolute idiots.

Doubling down on the lies, eh?

Government spending on healthcare in 2016 was £152.2bn, according to the ONS article linked here.

If you use an online inflation calculator like this one, and put in April 2016 and £152.2m (you have to use millions rather than billions because of a cap in the tool, but the ratio is the same) you will see that if spending on healthcare had risen in line with the cost of living over those 8 years, we'd be spending £222bn a year this year.

Now the latest figures I can find are actually for 2023 (since we're talking about spending, rather than budgets). That was a total of £211.6bn. Now that is missing the last year of increases, but putting that £211bn into the same calculator I linked earlier suggests that equates to £215bn this year.

So, as you can see, the spending in real terms on healthcare by this government since a little red bus lied to us back in 2016 is actually lower. So suggesting that we've somehow spent even £350m a week extra, never mind the £750m you were claiming is, to be blunt, a load of old bollocks. We've spent more, because inflation automatically means that we spend more.

So there you go, your lies broken down in precise details, with links and explanations. Feel free to ignore this, change the subject and pretend like you haven't made yourself look like a complete idiot. That's not what I want you to do, but bitter experience tells me that's exactly how you're going to play this.

I'd suggest you are getting confused and no amount of you tapping away on a calculator and doing back of a fag packet sums, whilst blustering about RPI, is going to compete with the thorough analysis these guys have done.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight...udget-nutshell

Check your figures against those King's Fund figures which give real term increases of NHS funding taking inflation into account. Then do this little sum for me from these King's Fund supplied figures for 2023 vs 2016, £181bn - £144bn and divide the answer by 52. How many 100's of millions a week is that? And there you have the correct figure. That's a fact you've produced btw and not supposition, might even be your first. Care to state what you found it was here?

If only you'd properly read the article linked, did bias get in the way I wonder.

[Iliena]

I hate smoking and I’m very much left wing, but I don’t believe in prohibition. Why hand all the revenue to smugglers and mafioso? Regulate, control and tax.

Agreed that will happen, anybody intent on smoking still will. But not all, I expect many will turn to vaping which is a safer alternative.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't like smoking and wish people would stop, but I also wish and thought I'd voted for a centre right wing government that didn't feel the need to ban everything, embraced Brexit and personal freedoms, including the right to smoke yourself to death if you so choose. It's a stupid law that won't survive long term, we can't even stop people smoking cannabis and worse as it is.

While we have a NHS and with what a blight long-term smoking related conditions are to it, I can't agree with that stance.

Cannabis will be made legal at some point and can be the new tax cash cow! You can already get it legally quite easily in this country with a private prescription.

[Edge-]

I wonder if Tories will go full-prohibition and try to ban alcohol next?

I mean, it generally causes a wide range of health problems, not to mention the broader social and criminal issues publicly inebriated individuals cause, including drink driving collisions and all.

It isn't healthy for us and it can absolutely be addictive, and alcoholism remains a serious problem for many folks!

[Huehuecoyotl]

I'd suggest you are getting confused and no amount of you tapping away on a calculator and doing back of a fag packet sums, whilst blustering about RPI, is going to compete with the thorough analysis these guys have done.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight...udget-nutshell

Check your figures against those King's Fund figures which give real term increases of NHS funding taking inflation into account. Then do this little sum for me from these King's Fund supplied figures for 2023 vs 2016, £181bn - £144bn and divide the answer by 52. How many 100's of millions a week is that? And there you have the correct figure. That's a fact you've produced btw and not supposition, might even be your first. Care to state what you found it was here?

If only you'd properly read the article linked, did bias get in the way I wonder.

I've just spent some time digging into the details of the analysis you linked, and I can't get to the bottom of why it doesn't match up with the ONS numbers that I linked. And then I thought; why bother? Why reply to a troll that is going to ignore any analysis I do anyway?

I've shown that the government health spending has NOT gone up in real terms between 2016 and 2023. It has kept in step with inflation, pretty much. Now if you have a report that shows the NHS portion of that spend has gone up disproportionately, then that means those funds have just been taken from other healthcare spending. Possibly from the local budgets for health support services? I honestly don't know.

The fact remains, we are NOT spending more on healthcare as a country. Not per capita. Not in real terms adjusted for inflation. Not based on GDPR. None of them. Your belief that we've redirected funds that we previously sent to the EU is a fiction.

Also, given your recent posts, the fact that you are now quoting someone analysing and projecting is frankly fucking hilarious. Didn't you JUST say that all that was conspiracy theories? Or is that just ones that don't agree with your bias?

Once more your hypocrisy is on full display.

[Iliena]

I wonder if Tories will go full-prohibition and try to ban alcohol next?

I mean, it generally causes a wide range of health problems, not to mention the broader social and criminal issues publicly inebriated individuals cause, including drink driving collisions and all.

It isn't healthy for us and it can absolutely be addictive, and alcoholism remains a serious problem for many folks!

No too many Tories enjoy it!

I would bring my plans to move to Ireland when I retire forward if they did!

[Kallisto]

I wonder if Tories will go full-prohibition and try to ban alcohol next?

I mean, it generally causes a wide range of health problems, not to mention the broader social and criminal issues publicly inebriated individuals cause, including drink driving collisions and all.

It isn't healthy for us and it can absolutely be addictive, and alcoholism remains a serious problem for many folks!

As much as I know this is a joke post I will reply seriously (Because I'm dumb like that)

Not anytime soon. Jokes aside Alcohol is far too ingrained in many cultures for it to be successfully banned. Wine at meals, night out, sports gatherings etc etc too many people like a drink to go with the events and even today people who don't drink are still looked at as weird. You try to ban alcohol in the UK it could actually lead to a full revolt among the populace.

[dribbles]

I've just spent some time digging into the details of the analysis you linked, and I can't get to the bottom of why it doesn't match up with the ONS numbers that I linked. And then I thought; why bother? Why reply to a troll that is going to ignore any analysis I do anyway?

I've shown that the government health spending has NOT gone up in real terms between 2016 and 2023. It has kept in step with inflation, pretty much. Now if you have a report that shows the NHS portion of that spend has gone up disproportionately, then that means those funds have just been taken from other healthcare spending. Possibly from the local budgets for health support services? I honestly don't know.

The fact remains, we are NOT spending more on healthcare as a country. Not per capita. Not in real terms adjusted for inflation. Not based on GDPR. None of them. Your belief that we've redirected funds that we previously sent to the EU is a fiction.

Also, given your recent posts, the fact that you are now quoting someone analysing and projecting is frankly fucking hilarious. Didn't you JUST say that all that was conspiracy theories? Or is that just ones that don't agree with your bias?

Once more your hypocrisy is on full display.

It's good that you finally come clean and admit not knowing the facts but yet still fall short of an apology for your misrepresentations and personal insults. Of course as usual I, a Brexiteer, can always be relied upon to bring you the actual facts and enlightenment so from the King's Fund report for one last time...

Since 1955/56, spending on the NHS has increased by an average of 3.6 per cent per year in real terms.

And

From 2016 to 2023 inflation adjusted spending on the NHS, excluding additional spending on the Covid pandemic, increased in real terms by 2.8% every year.

It also shows the worst period of time for NHS increased spending (1.1% real terms annual increases) was when the Lib Dems were involved in the coalition government between 2010 and 2016, the takeaway being don't vote for them at the next General Election if you care about NHS funding. Still not convinced by the King's Fund report? Here's yet another from the Nuffield Trust health professionals showing virtually the same thing...

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/res...-past-10-years

Once again though I reiterate wherever you look, except your now discredited fag packet calculations, sources show a Brexit benefit promised on increased NHS funding of £350 million a week at the referendum in 2016 on the side of a bus, clearly delivered in full by 2023.

Thank you Brexit.


Infracted.

[Nederbelg]

Once again though I reiterate wherever you look, except your now discredited calculations, sources show a Brexit benefit promised on increased NHS funding of £350 million a week at the referendum in 2016 on the side of a bus, clearly delivered in full by 2023.

Thank you Brexit.


Infracted.

This would only be true in the case of the NHS funding not rising or not rising as much if Brexit hadn't happen.
The promise of the bus tried to make is that the 350M would be xtra on top of the normal raises, which didn't happen.
There was no sudden jump in the funding due to Brexit, just the normal increases due to inflation. The rise over time has been steady and would have been even if Brexit never happened. And it does not rise enough or it would not be in the bad state it is now.


But hey, have a nice brittish cabbage. (You seem to be really proud of those being in the supermarket)

[Gigantique]

I mean, why let silly things like inflation get in the way of a good story eh?

I too would like to pretend my wage has gone up the last two years and not realistically gone down!