Ghostcrawler: "LFD with harder dungeons and NO LFR"

[Osmeric]

I don't think ALL subs would drop because you remove LFR. And If they were to implent harder LFD and remove LFR (Which would be awesome) and people would leave: Good, they're the kind of people we don't need.

Actually, they are just the kind of people you need. As in, people willing to send Blizzard money to play WoW, which supports the development of the content that you think should be your own.

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Wildstar have nothing to do with this. If you think it didnt gained millions od players becosue game was hard then youa re st**pid sorry. But people left wildstrar dor comepltly different reasons.

I think it had poor initial sales (what was it, 400K?) because the "hardcore rawr!" talk turned off too many people. That certainly made me completely write it off.

Humor on just that point: http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20140905

[Alltat]

They should have just kept the old casual 10-15 man raiding that vanilla shipped with. Back when Upper Blackrock Spire was a PUG-friendly raid for 10-15 man groups, and Scholomance and Stratholme were casual 10 man raids. There isn't really anything like that in the game anymore. Now you either go 25 man LFR or do the much harder 10+ man normal raids.

-No LFR
-No LFG
-Hard Attunements
-Hard 5man dungeons
-Hard questing
-Fun Leveling

And no, I wasn't listing Vanilla features.

Clearly not, or you'd have to replace "hard" and "fun" with "excessively grindy" for most of them. It was better than other games at the time, but some quests (like the murloc tumor one) were just absurdly time-consuming. Leveling was fun up until level 57 or so, and then the last bit was just miserable.

[Deleted]

I don't think ALL subs would drop because you remove LFR. And If they were to implent harder LFD and remove LFR (Which would be awesome) and people would leave: Good, they're the kind of people we don't need.

There is another side of same coin:
Maybe you and others alike are not needed by large majority. Game would be much cheaper to produce (no new raid every month needed) and more fun to play, less elitist whining would be welcome, also less toxicity.

Human history is full of examples speaking like you - today we call them dictators. Wont mention names.

[apples]

until dungeons are 15+ hours long, battlegrounds take 6 weeks to finish, and gear is only accessible once youve put in 100s of days worth of /played then the game will continue to be a kiddy coddling noobfest

make the game hard, start by increasing raid boss health by an exponent of 100 and increasing their dmg done on all abilities by 50x. when lfr hfa mobs start hitting for 750k and players have 7500 hp thats when youll start seeing who the good players are and then people will really start enjoying the game.

subs would come back in the hundreds of millions and wow would be the single most profitable entity in the history of earth

[Seefer]

Harder dungeons are also here. During WoD launch the only path to raiding preparation was Challenge Modes. Those were harder than TBC 5mans.

If you say so.

[tacoloco]

Do people really enjoy rehashing the same shit all the time?

[Glorious Leader]

Not really... pugs want to clear content its not a progression raid ..

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Problem is its at odds with the current reality. When raiding was "closed" off we had 52 bosses and 16 dungeons. Everyone flocks to one old quote then tries to sweep other quotes under the rug like wow is never going to have a cash shop.

Yes really. Lfr is not the reason people.ask for stupid ilvl requirements. That behaviour predates lfr.

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There was nothing hardcore about the raids in Cata, other than MAYBE the first 2 raids and Firelands the whole expansion sucked balls, from the leveling to the nerfed dungeons, and the way they did LFR at the start? Pure shit.

The entry level cata raids were some of the hardest they ever made. Coupled with the fact that they decided to get rid of the 10 man beer league raiding scene it destroyed many smaller f and f guilds.

[Deleted]

Harder dungeons are also here. During WoD launch the only path to raiding preparation was Challenge Modes. Those were harder than TBC 5mans.

WoD CMs aren't even close to the difficulty of TBC HCs.

[Glorious Leader]

The point is that all later raids in TBC required grinding old raids or in general required a lot more grinding than now. Hell, they required getting a whole guild back to old raids just because they replaced 1 single tank or something and that was horrible design and everyone knows it (that remembers that era well).

At the end of the day if every single TBC raid would give entry gear to players every major content patch (as it is now for the last few expansions) it would be even more obvious that current Mythic raiding end-bosses are about 10 X harder than TBC's raiding.

This is clearly true at least since Ulduar onwards. TBC was really not that hard compared to now. It was just a lot more grind-y and lot more wasty my timey and most people were seeing the game for the first time and thought everything is hard anyway.

Clearly with few exceptions the hardcore raid community would be incredible disaplwith tbc era raid design..it was a joke for the most part

[primalmatter]

Clearly with few exceptions the hardcore raid community would be incredible disaplwith tbc era raid design..it was a joke for the most part

Hard to say. TBC every class was a lot weaker and had more to deal with in terms of gearing and managing mechanics .Some would enjoy it others wouldn't.

I think when most bring up tbc though they mean they crave that level of content in terms of sheer volume and variety more then they do the mechanics of it.

[Biggles Worth]

I completely agree with his statement on the way they should have taken instead of making dungeons easy snooze fests, and bringing the abysmal LFR into the game.

The game lost its sense of identity when they brought these two features into the game. Players wanted the ability to find other players quicker than spam trade chat for 2 hours. THATS ALL. The repercussions that happened was a result of community reaction to the difficulty.

Had blizzard stuck to their guns and kept dungeon difficulty high, and evolved the match making system and not the difficulty of the dungeons, I believe there would be less burn out and less player turnover that we have now.

Greg Street has it completely right. LFD with harder dungeons and no LFR is the best way to go.

Do you agree with Ghostcrawler? I sure as hell do.

EDIT:
It seems as though some people are getting caught up on the phrase that Greg said before he made this statement:

"If you put a gun to my head, [I would have chosen] LFD with harder dungeons and No LFR."

I will now quote a fellow poster:


To back up PuffyPussy22, it doesn't change at all how he truly feels. He felt that LFR was bad for the game and should never have been implemented. He felt that dungeons should have always been harder. He felt that the LFD tool should have only been there to group players together, and thats it. There is NO other context that can be derived to which he made that statement.

That's all I've ever wanted was harder dungeons. Not just cheesey cop outs like increasing numbers either cause no one wants that shit.

[Glorious Leader]

Hard to say. TBC every class was a lot weaker and had more to deal with in terms of gearing and managing mechanics .Some would enjoy it others wouldn't.

I think when most bring up tbc though they mean they crave that level of content in terms of sheer volume and variety more then they do the mechanics of it.

Its not hard to say. Standing in one place spamming 1 button for 90% of the fights would bore the ever loving shit out of mythic raiders. The "lvl" of content they crave is a direct result of mostly poor game design thats been corrected. Yea everyone wants variety but that would mean offering better gear outside of raids and try hard shit heel mid cores whined about that too. Valor points offered variety but nooooooo can't have welfare epics.

[primalmatter]

Its not hard to say. Standing in one place spamming 1 button for 90% of the fights would bore the ever loving shit out of mythic raiders. The "lvl" of content they crave is a direct result of mostly poor game design thats been corrected. Yea everyone wants variety but that would mean offering better gear outside of raids and try hard shit heel mid cores whined about that too. Valor points offered variety but nooooooo can't have welfare epics.

I can't think of a class that did that in tbc. Mana alone would stop casters...

You can't have free epics it at best over gears you for content suited to you and at worst shortens the life span of higher modes. No one wins anything with free gear.

[melodramocracy]

I am not saying they don't count, but if you are going to say LFR didn't hurt the game at all then you are going off the deep end.

It actually did hurt the game, just not remotely the way you think.

[Osmeric]

I can't think of a class that did that in tbc.

Warlocks. As I understand it, at one point the optimum rotation was to sac your demon and spam shadow bolt.

[Glorious Leader]

I can't think of a class that did that in tbc. Mana alone would stop casters...

You can't have free epics it at best over gears you for content suited to you and at worst shortens the life span of higher modes. No one wins anything with free gear.

Bm hunter. One button macro. No focus.

Everyone wins when the game offers alternative avenues towards the same gear goal. Everyone except the developers who can't rely on bribing the player base to run raids.

[primalmatter]

Warlocks. As I understand it, at one point the optimum rotation was to sac your demon and spam shadow bolt.

It took a bit more then that...not a lot mind you but that was with a fair amount of tier and gear at top levels and I am not sure one class with one spec proves a trend. Even then they still had to manage threat.

I am not making the case class rotations are harder now just that i think people want the level of content tbc had. I think if legion ended with 52 raid bosses and 16 dungeons people would be over joyed.

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Bm hunter. One button macro. No focus.

Everyone wins when the game offers alternative avenues towards the same gear goal. Everyone except the developers who can't rely on bribing the player base to run raids.

they needed to manage mana.

[HotDude]

Why exclude LFR some of us just like a casual play on a raid without all the raid bs that comes with it.

[Glorious Leader]

It took a bit more then that...not a lot mind you but that was with a fair amount of tier and gear at top levels and I am not sure one class with one spec proves a trend. Even then they still had to manage threat.

I am not making the case class rotations are harder now just that i think people want the level of content tbc had. I think if legion ended with 52 raid bosses and 16 dungeons people would be over joyed.

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they needed to manage mana.

Uhhh ohhh switch on viper REAL HARD. Still one button stand in place for 90% of the fights. It's a joke and as much as people bitch about the ability bloat reduction in WOD they haven't got a fucking clue.

[Seefer]

Warlocks. As I understand it, at one point the optimum rotation was to sac your demon and spam shadow bolt.

Yep, that was the class I played in TBC, the sac lock.